Stainless Steel: Machined VS Sintered
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Sintering fuses powder into a shape. Machining starts with a block of metal and carves out the part. There is not necessarily any difference in durability just from sintering vs machining, all else being equal.
However all else probably is not equal. The term "stainless" is used for a wide range of steels, with different characteristics. There can be significant differences in the details of the sintering or machining processes. For example there could be a big difference between http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPM_S30V_steel and something printed in 3D for rapid prototyping. There could be a big difference between two different machined parts made from different grades of steel using different machining processes, too.
However all else probably is not equal. The term "stainless" is used for a wide range of steels, with different characteristics. There can be significant differences in the details of the sintering or machining processes. For example there could be a big difference between http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPM_S30V_steel and something printed in 3D for rapid prototyping. There could be a big difference between two different machined parts made from different grades of steel using different machining processes, too.
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Webers are sintered?
I thought the handles were machined and the heads were cast.
Thanks,
Mike
Interesting! So would you be able to comment on whether the machined stainless of some razors is worth the extra cost above a sintered like weber?[/QUOTE]
I thought the handles were machined and the heads were cast.
Thanks,
Mike
Interesting! So would you be able to comment on whether the machined stainless of some razors is worth the extra cost above a sintered like weber?[/QUOTE]
adding a related link for people who find this page through Google:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...hods-Is-Machined-gt-MIM-gt-sintered-gt-casted
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...hods-Is-Machined-gt-MIM-gt-sintered-gt-casted
If you use powdered metal, liquefy it, and pore it into a mold (ie sintered) - and THEN machine it into its final shape (ie take off the flashing where the pieces of the mold meet, and polish the entire surface (ie machine off 1 micron)
Versus
Skip the molding/sintering step and machine lots and lots to get the block of metal to be razor shaped - but then do the final "shaping/sizing" machining step and polishing step then same
Then there would be no difference. The manufacturer is just trading the expense of the molding machinery for more labor hours.
Ps: Forged metal is stronger, but machined metal does not mean that the billet you started with was forged.
Pps: I think the REAL question you are asking is whether the "expensive" stainless razors are worth the price difference over the Weber.
The ATT is an extremely flexible system and very precisely made and polished.
The Ikon has open comb options the weber doesn't have, and both the open and closed comb versions are very precisely made and polished.
The feather is a much milder razor than the weber, and very precisely made and polished.
The Weber is a little more aggressive than medium (only) and a few handful of users have reported a wavy blade. A few users have also reported uneven blade exposure. Aggressiveness between razors may also differ due to hand polishing...
One user reported that they fixed their Wavy blade problem in a few minutes by rubbing the blade holding ridges against some fine sandpaper on a countertop.
Bottom line: My Weber seems perfect, and the number of reported issues seems small compared to the number of people who report that the razor is one of their favorites. I'd recommend it to my friends and family without hesitation.
However, if money is no object - I'd recommend the ATT system with mild+medium (or medium+aggressive) plates and an open comb plate in one of those aggressiveness levels. Then you'd be covered for any situation
Versus
Skip the molding/sintering step and machine lots and lots to get the block of metal to be razor shaped - but then do the final "shaping/sizing" machining step and polishing step then same
Then there would be no difference. The manufacturer is just trading the expense of the molding machinery for more labor hours.
Ps: Forged metal is stronger, but machined metal does not mean that the billet you started with was forged.
Pps: I think the REAL question you are asking is whether the "expensive" stainless razors are worth the price difference over the Weber.
The ATT is an extremely flexible system and very precisely made and polished.
The Ikon has open comb options the weber doesn't have, and both the open and closed comb versions are very precisely made and polished.
The feather is a much milder razor than the weber, and very precisely made and polished.
The Weber is a little more aggressive than medium (only) and a few handful of users have reported a wavy blade. A few users have also reported uneven blade exposure. Aggressiveness between razors may also differ due to hand polishing...
One user reported that they fixed their Wavy blade problem in a few minutes by rubbing the blade holding ridges against some fine sandpaper on a countertop.
Bottom line: My Weber seems perfect, and the number of reported issues seems small compared to the number of people who report that the razor is one of their favorites. I'd recommend it to my friends and family without hesitation.
However, if money is no object - I'd recommend the ATT system with mild+medium (or medium+aggressive) plates and an open comb plate in one of those aggressiveness levels. Then you'd be covered for any situation
A razor is not exactly under great stress when performing it's designed job. I am a vintage Gillette guy, but I would assume that a sintered razor would preform and last as long as a machined one.
Without getting too deep into the differences between the processes, when we're talking about razors final QC is a lot more important than whether a razor is cast, sintered or machined. You won't have to worry about the longevity, and your kids probably won't either.
That would be casting. The metal is never melted in sintering. It's a combination of heat and pressure that makes the powder fuse.
Indeed, the production volumes are a bigger factor in choosing a method than the end result.
Considering these are very much niche products, machining is a popular method.
Hi,
The next part you might want to look into is the differences in the various alloys used. For example, the 316 vs 303 which are the two I see most used (although there is a new one said to use 304, which is what I would like best). Here is a link to a decent site regarding the 300 series Stainless Steels, if anyone cares. This is getting pretty far beyond what someone simply wanting to shave would care to know...
http://www.pennstainless.com/stainless-grades/300-series-stainless-steel/
Stan
Edit: If we go back one page on that site, the more curious can see some other forms such as the 400 series and 17-4PH which I have seen references to being used in razors and handles.
http://www.pennstainless.com/stainless-grades/
The next part you might want to look into is the differences in the various alloys used. For example, the 316 vs 303 which are the two I see most used (although there is a new one said to use 304, which is what I would like best). Here is a link to a decent site regarding the 300 series Stainless Steels, if anyone cares. This is getting pretty far beyond what someone simply wanting to shave would care to know...
http://www.pennstainless.com/stainless-grades/300-series-stainless-steel/
Stan
Edit: If we go back one page on that site, the more curious can see some other forms such as the 400 series and 17-4PH which I have seen references to being used in razors and handles.
http://www.pennstainless.com/stainless-grades/
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Out of curiosity, why would you prefer 304 to 316L? 316L ("marine-grade") SS should be superior in corrosion-resistance. 303/304 are easier to machine, I believe. Many of the available SS handles are 316L, but I am not aware of any heads made in 316L, due to the difficulty in the machining of it.
Although I find this discussion interesting, I sense a dead horse being beaten.
The two best-made modern razors, in my experience, are the Feather and the ATT. Since I have never had a quality-control or rust issue with either razor, the differences in their manufacturing methods and materials is moot to me.
But as long as we're beating this horse, thread rolling is the best method of forming a handle (stronger than machining), but this would be the ultimate overkill and cost-prohibitive (I think).
The two best-made modern razors, in my experience, are the Feather and the ATT. Since I have never had a quality-control or rust issue with either razor, the differences in their manufacturing methods and materials is moot to me.
But as long as we're beating this horse, thread rolling is the best method of forming a handle (stronger than machining), but this would be the ultimate overkill and cost-prohibitive (I think).
Great... Now I'm headed to Wikipedia again... I'll never get any work done! ;-D
Exactly, a well made cast zinc alloy razor head has plenty of structural strength to withstand the stresses of shaving, even the very soft high copper content brass that was used in the top caps of Gillette NEW razors is for the most part still functional after decades of use and abuse, these are much weaker metals in every sense than any correctly made sintered/cast/forged/machined/EDM steel. The key is the part about being *correctly made*...
'Marine grade' is more than superior rust resistance. The USS Thresher disaster demonstrated the need for truly precision made fittings and steels that could meet those tolerances. Early submarines actually led the way operating in the extremes of maritime conditions. 100 years on as RMS Titanic verges on collapse WW1 submarines are still virtually intact.
with sintering you can create "super" alloys that are extremely difficult to impossible by melting metals together, VG-10 vs ZDP-189 for example. in terms of shaving, i would think you can create more parts faster compared to machining. will outlast the original owners grand kids at least when taken care of properly. im a machine nut, so naturally im shooting for a machined razor.
Like others have said, I agree that the shaping method doesn't matter for a razor. However, the grade of metal used matters. "Stainless steel" is a category that encompasses a lot of different materials, some of which rust easily and some of which do not. Of course, we'd all prefer a razor that doesn't rust.
The other factor that might make a difference is how brittle the steel is. If you get to a high carbon steel that's really hardened and brittle, small parts like open comb teeth could chip off if you drop the razor, and that would be bad. But, that would be a more expensive steel, anyway, so I doubt anyone in real life has to worry about their razor being made of too hard of a steel.
The other factor that might make a difference is how brittle the steel is. If you get to a high carbon steel that's really hardened and brittle, small parts like open comb teeth could chip off if you drop the razor, and that would be bad. But, that would be a more expensive steel, anyway, so I doubt anyone in real life has to worry about their razor being made of too hard of a steel.
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